Sosen is not the “Linda and Cheryl Show” anymore

static

My turn…
« on: June 01, 2008, 03:02:35 PM »
——————————————————————————–
Ok- I estimate that there are 11-13 separate threads about this stupid fight and/or about Lets. I personally have called both of you, Linda and Cheryl- I suspect I’m not the only one who has tried to intervene before your pissing contest destroys Sosen. We’ve had a Board Meeting over this, and all signs point to this being the main topic in the teleconference tonight.

I am sick of this shit. Perhaps if you two were to have a common foe, you’d both grow the hell up and get off the high horses you both are currently riding. I suppose I’ll end up being that common foe- because I’m surely gonna piss both of you off with this post. And you know what?- Y’all just go ahead and get pissed, because there are a few things that ought to be said.

I do believe that this fiasco is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever witnessed here at Sosen (and that’s really saying something). We all get mad at each other sometimes, and we all are capable of acting like idiots- it goes with the territory. And just because you two are the “leaders” here doesn’t mean that you aren’t allowed to blow off steam. But I think this has gone way beyond simply arguing or venting. In fact, you two are doing more right now to hurt Sosen than Stitches or Lets ever could.

I realize that you two have largely built Sosen yourselves and that you’ve both sacrificed plenty. But whether you realized it or not, Sosen never was about Linda and Cheryl- actually you guys intentionally built it to be bigger than the two of you. And you were successful. Sosen is not the “Linda and Cheryl Show” anymore. Sosen is a vital resource for every one of its members. What this means is that neither of you have the right to diminish Sosen over some personal differences. And make no mistake- that is exactly what you are doing. Your fight may be more important to you than the well-being of Sosen, but I assure you it’s not more important than Sosen to the rest of us. I don’t care who started it, and I don’t care how many ugly things you have said to each other- I’m not going to say “Linda’s an asshole”. And I’m not going to say “Cheryl’s an asshole”. What I am fully confident in saying at this point is that you both are acting like stubborn assholes. That would be none of my business, except for the fact that Sosen matters to me more than you know. And your fight is striking at the very foundations of Sosen. This isn’t my fight- I was dragged into it. Who the hell do either of you think you are to hurt Sosen (and by extension, all its members) over this?

You are the CEO and COO, and you both like to remind us all of your positions. You’ve lately both taken the opportunity to question each other’s leadership abilities. Ok, fine- did it ever occur to either of you that this problem could’ve been avoided long ago if either of you had shown the leadership to foresee such a possibility and put policies in place to avoid things like Lets has recently done? And what kind of leadership are either of you showing right now? On the one hand, we have Cheryl issuing ultimatims- which is really not much different than a child saying “Give me what I want, or I’m gonna scream”. On the other hand, Linda also has issued her own brand of ultimatim by insisting that Cheryl admit fault. And what’s funny is that both of you are seeing the other as unreasonable. So far as I’ve seen, both are unreasonable about this. At any time, either of you could’ve risen above this and been the bigger person. You both claim that you’ve done that, yet the truth is that neither of you have. And -since no one else seems to be able to say this, I will- the problem of what to do about Lets is impossible to solve because you two can’t seem to discuss it without bringing your own personal issues with each other into it. They are totally separate issues- your fight has nothing to do with Lets, it’s now a personal beef between you two. Meanwhile, the rest of us are left begging you two “noble leaders” to please put a stop to your bullshit before you end up destroying Sosen. This is petty, immature, and -frankly- annoying. I’ve gotten mad before, and I’ve voiced my anger- But if that’s all this was, it would’ve been finished by now. All it is now is a pissing contest. And your fight has now become ALL of our problem. I never thought I’d say this, but I am deeply ashamed of both of you. This has gone on for far too long- you both know it. So now you’ve pissed me off (and I suspect I’m not alone in this). You two are steadily diminishing our confidence in you, meanwhile you both seem to be oblivious to the damage you are doing to yourselves, let alone the damge you are doing to the rest of us.

It has gone from a disagreement, to a grudge-match, to a farce. What’s next? It comes down to this- you are BOTH being a bit childish, and you are BOTH holding up progress. Knock it off.

There are only a few options left now.

1. You guys can commit to getting on the phone with each other and neither one hanging up until you’ve worked it out. Argue, bitch, cry, or laugh- you have to sit there and work this out, no matter what.

2. You can agree to disagree and drop it -and NEVER bring it up again (this would involve some forgiveness, and I’m not sure either of you are able to forgive- and you’re damn sure not able to forget. So this isn’t a real option, considering your current behavior).

3. You can choose to forgive each other and BOTH of you step back and let the rest of Staff and BOD decide how to handle Lets (we damn sure are showing more ability to be reasonable than either of you are). This is another option which may not be possible- you both are control-freaks to an extent.

4. We can all just close Sosen and call it a day. (In case you didn’t notice, that’s how far you have taken this).

Notice what WASN’T a viable option- either of you leaving is basically the same as closing Sosen. Sorry, but if we can’t even rely on our top people being able to act like adults, we are as good as finished anyway. And continuing your pissing match is also not an option- you’ve done enough damage, and said enough crap that you both regret. If neither of you can stop accusing each other, and start admitting where YOU went wrong, there’s really not much more to say, and no reason to keep saying the same crap that got you into this mess in the first place.

Yeah- I’m fairly new, I’m just the lowly Secretary (a position I’m very close to leaving, BTW), and I haven’t been in this as long as you two have. But guess what- Sosen is as important to me as it is to you. Yes- you are the CEO and COO, and as such, you are our leaders. But you know what?- Your behavior for the last three days doesn’t exactly instill confidence in your leadership.

I’m asking- well actually I’m telling- you to do the hard thing here: Work this out. Look at your own faults and quit trying to make the other person see thiers. There is no reason you two should even be fighting about this- I know that sounds crazy, but from the outside looking in, this is all kinda stupid.

And since I’m pissing you two off, I may as well help you to see where you each went wrong.

Cheryl- You took it too personally. Lets is an idiot, and you gave him exactly what he wanted. You let him get under your skin, and basically ensured that he got what he was going for. Then, you got pissed and it became “my way or the highway”. The truth is that you made it easier for Lets to continue his bullshit, because you gave him the payoff. And once you got mad at Linda, there was no way to meet you in the middle, because it became a personal fight between you and her, instead of a disagreement on how to handle Lets. Toward the end, you started issuing ultimatims- this makes it very hard to work things out. I’m probably more on your side in this than Linda’s side, but when you issue ultimatims, it makes it hard for me to back you up- and it makes it hard for people who disagree with you to see your side of things. To be honest, you’ve let your emotions cause you to act very immaturely at times. You have let your anger and frustration get the better of you, and a lot of damage has now been done not only to you- but BY you.

Linda- It’s one thing to offer support to members who may be having trouble. But when you saw how upsetting this was getting for Cheryl, you should’ve left no ambiguity as to whose side you were on. You say this comes from the fact that you are a cousellor at heart- so why didn’t your “counsellor’s heart” prompt you to cut Cheryl some slack? She’s way more upset about this than Lets is- doesn’t she also need support? And if you delete, isn’t it only fair to delete ALL posts which subtly insinuate? You’re right- Cheryl was addressing Lets, even if she didn’t mention him by name. But FG and Lets were also addressing Cheryl in subtle ways. The fair thing to do would’ve been to delete ALL the questionable posts, if any. You gave Lets and FG the benefit of the doubt, but automatically saw Cheryl’s posts as “attacking”. The truth is that this all started with Lets- and he should’ve gotten the brunt of your displeasure. Go ahead and tell Cheryl that you don’t think she did the right thing, but be honest about all the other posts in that thread- I can see what Lets and FG were doing, and I know you can too. And when it comes right down to it, even if Cheryl was wrong, so were they- and it started with Lets, not Cheryl. Also, Cheryl is a member of Staff and BOD and should have more leeway in dealing with abuse of the forum than you allowed her to have. If it had been me they were attacking, you’d better believe I would’ve been watching thier every post and deleting anything that was remotely questionable- once Lets was warned, Cheryl had every right as a moderator who was under personal attack, to be heavy-handed with the delete button. My opinion is that she shouldn’t have kept addressing them on the forum, but you didn’t even let her do her job as moderator. In this, you were wrong. It turned into a “tit-for tat” specifically because you tied Cheryl’s hands. At some point, it was inevitable that she would respond openly, because she wasn’t allowed to merely delete the bullshit to begin with. And since this argument has started, you’ve been just as hard-headed as she has been. Yes- you offered a truce, but you’ve been just as “tit for tat” as she has and you were arguing in the Board-meeting too.

My point is that both of you are in some ways wrong, and the only way this will ever be resolved is for each of you to take responsibility for your own part in this, quit trying to convince the other person how wrong they are, and forgive. THEN maybe we can -you know- move on and fix the Lets problem- and ensure that it never goes this far again.

I love and respect both of you a great deal, but you are both wrong. Let’s fix this crap and move on, ok? Isn’t it a little past time to stop fighting? Hey- if nothing else, call each other and gripe about how I’ve got some nerve telling you two what to do. At least then, you’ll be agreeing (and the truth is that you both agree way more than you disagree anyway).

In short (and I firmly believe I speak for eveyone else here)- Your problems have now become our problems- work it out like adults- and do it soon, if either of you care about Sosen.

billm

——————————————————————————–
Very well said.

lindape54
SOSEN/CEO
SOSEN Staff
Member

——————————————————————————–

Ok- I estimate that there are 11-13 separate threads about this stupid fight and/or about Lets. I personally have called both of you, Linda and Cheryl- I suspect I’m not the only one who has tried to intervene before your pissing contest destroys Sosen. We’ve had a Board Meeting over this, and all signs point to this being the main topic in the teleconference tonight. It will be one of the topics but not the only topic.:see the agenda

I am sick of this shit.I haven’t been able to leave my computer for 4 days. Where where you when all of this was going on? Oh that ’s right…taking a break because you are tired of doing SOSEN’s work Perhaps if you two were to have a common foe, you’d both grow the hell up and get off the high horses you both are currently ridingTread carefully Static, I am alot older and and a whole lot more experienced that you.. I suppose I’ll end up being that common foe-GROW UP because I’m surely gonna piss both of you off with this posti’m a big girl I can take it. And you know what?- Y’all just go ahead and get pissed, because there are a few things that ought to be said.

I do believe that this fiasco is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever witnessed here at Sosen (and that’s really saying something).Boy you can say that again! I only tried for 3 solid days to get Cheryl to calm down WITH NO HELP We all get mad at each other sometimes, and we all are capable of acting like idiots- it goes with the territory. And just because you two are the “leaders” here doesn’t mean that you aren’t allowed to blow off steam. But I think this has gone way beyond simply arguing or venting. In fact, you two are doing more right now to hurt Sosen than Stitches or Lets ever could.Atleast I kept it off the open forum no thanks to Cheryl

I realize that you two have largely built Sosen yourselves and that you’ve both sacrificed plenty. But whether you realized it or not, Sosen never was about Linda and Cheryl- actually you guys intentionally built it to be bigger than the two of you.Yes we did and it will be around long after we are gone And you were successful. Sosen is not the “Linda and Cheryl Show” anymore. Sosen is a vital resource for every one of its members. What this means is that neither of you have the right to diminish Sosen over some personal differences. And make no mistake- that is exactly what you are doing.NO again you are wrong READ the threads Your fight may be more important to you than the well-being of Sosen, but I assure you it’s not more important than Sosen to the rest of us.Oh PLEASE cut the shit Static, You are hardly ever here. You have not even read all the threads or keept up with all the posts in national. I don’t care who started it, and I don’t care how many ugly things you have said to each other- I’m not going to say “Linda’s an asshole”. And I’m not going to say “Cheryl’s an asshole”. What I am fully confident in saying at this point is that you both are acting like stubborn assholes.Out of line boy That would be none of my business, except for the fact that Sosen matters to me more than you know. And your fight is striking at the very foundations of Sosen. This isn’t my fight- I was dragged into it. Who the hell do either of you think you are to hurt Sosen (and by extension, all its members) over this? Then maybe you should be around more often to help. What have you accomplished?

You are the CEO and COO, and you both like to remind us all of your positions.Yea OK I am about the most laid back person there is to work with. I still work with EVERY person that quit because of Shirley or Cheryl You’ve lately both taken the opportunity to question each other’s leadership abilities. Ok, fine- did it ever occur to either of you that this problem could’ve been avoided long ago if either of you had shown the leadership to foresee such a possibility and put policies in place to avoid things like Lets has recently done?Look at the DATe on the policys And what kind of leadership are either of you showing right now? On the one hand, we have Cheryl issuing ultimatims- which is really not much different than a child saying “Give me what I want, or I’m gonna scream”. On the other hand, Linda also has issued her own brand of ultimatim by insisting that Cheryl admit fault.All I wanted Cheryl to admit is trhat she understood that what she wanted me to do I as not allowed to do because it would have been unprofessional and against the rules. What could I have done differently? You heard her yourself. Admomish Lets in the OPEN forum or ban him. And what’s funny is that both of you are seeing the other as unreasonable. So far as I’ve seen, both are unreasonable about this.Gee If you took the time to read all the threads before running your mouth maybe that would help. At any time, either of you could’ve risen above this and been the bigger person.Again Where were you. MAYBE if you were around to help I might not have lost my patience after 48 hours of dealing with this by myself You both claim that you’ve done that, yet the truth is that neither of you have. And -since no one else seems to be able to say this, I will- the problem of what to do about Lets is impossible to solve because you two can’t seem to discuss it without bringing your own personal issues with each other into it. They are totally separate issues- your fight has nothing to do with Lets, it’s now a personal beef between you two. Meanwhile, the rest of us are left begging you two “noble leaders” to please put a stop to your bullshit before you end up destroying Sosen. This is petty, immature, and -frankly- annoying. I’ve gotten mad before, and I’ve voiced my anger- But if that’s all this was, it would’ve been finished by now. All it is now is a pissing contest. And your fight has now become ALL of our problem. I never thought I’d say this, but I am deeply ashamed of both of you. This has gone on for far too long- you both know it. So now you’ve pissed me off (and I suspect I’m not alone in this). You two are steadily diminishing our confidence in you, meanwhile you both seem to be oblivious to the damage you are doing to yourselves, let alone the damge you are doing to the rest of us. Sosen will be fine

It has gone from a disagreement, to a grudge-match, to a farce. What’s next? It comes down to this- you are BOTH being a bit childish, and you are BOTH holding up progress. Knock it off.

There are only a few options left now.

1. You guys can commit to getting on the phone with each other and neither one hanging up until you’ve worked it out. Argue, bitch, cry, or laugh- you have to sit there and work this out, no matter what.

2. You can agree to disagree and drop itGee Where have a seen this before???? Oh ya I WROTE THAT IN TRUCE DAYS AGO! -and NEVER bring it up again (this would involve some forgiveness, and I’m not sure either of you are able to forgive- and you’re damn sure not able to forget. So this isn’t a real option, considering your current behavior).

3. You can choose to forgive each other and BOTH of you step back and let the rest of Staff and BOD decide how to handle Lets (we damn sure are showing more ability to be reasonable than either of you are). This is another option which may not be possible- you both are control-freaks to an extent.

4. We can all just close Sosen and call it a day. (In case you didn’t notice, that’s how far you have taken this).

Notice what WASN’T a viable option- either of you leaving is basically the same as closing Sosen. Sorry, but if we can’t even rely on our top people being able to act like adults, we are as good as finished anyway. And continuing your pissing match is also not an option- you’ve done enough damage, and said enough crap that you both regret. If neither of you can stop accusing each other, and start admitting where YOU went wrong, there’s really not much more to say, and no reason to keep saying the same crap that got you into this mess in the first place.

Yeah- I’m fairly new, I’m just the lowly Secretary (a position I’m very close to leaving, BTW)I am so sick of people getting pissed and taking their ball and going home. Are you here for the long haul or just when it is convienant and everything is going smooth?, and I haven’t been in this as long as you two have. But guess what- Sosen is as important to me as it is to you. Yes- you are the CEO and COO, and as such, you are our leaders. But you know what?- Your behavior for the last three days doesn’t exactly instill confidence in your leadership.

I’m asking- well actually I’m telling- you to do the hard thing here: Work this out. Look at your own faults and quit trying to make the other person see thiers. There is no reason you two should even be fighting about this- I know that sounds crazy, but from the outside looking in, this is all kinda stupid.

And since I’m pissing you two off, I may as well help you to see where you each went wrong.

Cheryl- You took it too personally. Lets is an idiot, and you gave him exactly what he wanted. You let him get under your skin, and basically ensured that he got what he was going for. Then, you got pissed and it became “my way or the highway”. The truth is that you made it easier for Lets to continue his bullshit, because you gave him the payoff. And once you got mad at Linda, there was no way to meet you in the middle, because it became a personal fight between you and her, instead of a disagreement on how to handle Lets. Toward the end, you started issuing ultimatims- this makes it very hard to work things out. I’m probably more on your side in this than Linda’s side, but when you issue ultimatims, it makes it hard for me to back you up- and it makes it hard for people who disagree with you to see your side of things. To be honest, you’ve let your emotions cause you to act very immaturely at times. You have let your anger and frustration get the better of you, and a lot of damage has now been done not only to you- but BY you.

Linda- It’s one thing to offer support to members who may be having trouble. But when you saw how upsetting this was getting for Cheryl, you should’ve left no ambiguity as to whose side you were on. You say this comes from the fact that you are a cousellor at heart- so why didn’t your “counsellor’s heart” prompt you to cut Cheryl some slack? Oh BUT I DID DELETE THEIR POSTS AGAIN Your are speaking without know the factsShe’s way more upset about this than Lets is- doesn’t she also need support?Again I tried for 3 days by myself while you were on break. I AM ONE PERSON And if you delete, isn’t it only fair to delete ALL posts which subtly insinuate?I DID LOOK! You’re right- Cheryl was addressing Lets, even if she didn’t mention him by name. But FG and Lets were also addressing Cheryl in subtle ways. The fair thing to do would’ve been to delete ALL the questionable posts, if any. You gave Lets and FG the benefit of the doubt, but automatically saw Cheryl’s posts as “attacking”. The truth is that this all started with Lets- and he should’ve gotten the brunt of your displeasure. Go ahead and tell Cheryl that you don’t think she did the right thing, but be honest about all the other posts in that thread- I can see what Lets and FG were doing, and I know you can too. And when it comes right down to it, even if Cheryl was wrong, so were they- and it started with Lets, not Cheryl. Also, Cheryl is a member of Staff and BOD and should have more leeway in dealing with abuse of the forum than you allowed her to have.The rules go for ma and Cheryl too If it had been me they were attacking, you’d better believe I would’ve been watching thier every post and deleting anything that was remotely questionable- once Lets was warned, Cheryl had every right as a moderator who was under personal attack, to be heavy-handed with the delete button. My opinion is that she shouldn’t have kept addressing them on the forum, but you didn’t even let her do her job as moderator. In this, you were wrong. It turned into a “tit-for tat” specifically because you tied Cheryl’s hands.I did no such thing. She was deleting things just to piss them off and I called her on it. There was NOTHING innapropiated about the stuff Cheryl was deleting. At some point, it was inevitable that she would respond openly, because she wasn’t allowed to merely delete the bullshit to begin with. And since this argument has started, you’ve been just as hard-headed as she has been. Yes- you offered a truce, but you’ve been just as “tit for tat” as she has and you were arguing in the Board-meeting tooThis is day 4 for me static. Even little miss sally sunshine here has a breaking point

My point is that both of you are in some ways wrong, and the only way this will ever be resolved is for each of you to take responsibility for your own part in this, quit trying to convince the other person how wrong they are, and forgive. THEN maybe we can -you know- move on and fix the Lets problem- and ensure that it never goes this far again.

I love and respect both of you a great deal, but you are both wrong. Let’s fix this crap and move on, ok? Isn’t it a little past time to stop fighting? Hey- if nothing else, call each other and gripe about how I’ve got some nerve telling you two what to do. At least then, you’ll be agreeing (and the truth is that you both agree way more than you disagree anyway).

In short (and I firmly believe I speak for eveyone else here)- NO YOU DON”T I got plenty onf PM’s indicating otherwise. Your problems have now become our problems- work it out like adults- and do it soon, if either of you care about Sosen.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2008, 05:50:05 PM by lindape54 » Report to moderator Logged

——————————————————————————–
There IS life after sexual abuse
-http://thereislifeaftersexualabuse.blogspot.com/

WillySO
SOSEN Staff
Member

——————————————————————————–
Wow, ya spend a couple days off the forum and you miss the fireworks!

I am sure not taking sides in this one cause I don’t know the whole story.

But I think we do need to focus on the mission.

Willy
——————————————————————————–

lindape54
SOSEN/CEO
SOSEN Staff
Member

——————————————————————————–
Nobody has to take sides Willy. I liked it soooo much better before I was CEO Then I could just DUCK and get the hell out of the way till stuff cooled down LOL

——————————————————————————–