Forwarded Conversation
Subject: [nationalsosen]
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From: hope4tomorrowfoundation
Reply-To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 10:28 PM
Anyway, I just thought I would share this.
Also, I have an idea for fighting some of the pending laws. Anyone wanting to try to stop the process BEFORE a law is actually passed may file a Petition for Declaratory Relief from a mechanism to attack its constitutionality even before it exists. A court generally rules
on these petitions within 60-90 days, and this declaratory relief may be used later in a 1983 civil suit if the law is passed even after a declaratory action is issued.
From: shrlelwry
Reply-To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 10:52 PM
Can ypu give us an explanation on a petition of declaratory releif.I looked in the law library and came away empty-handed.
From: hope4tomorrowfoundation
Reply-To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, Apr 13, 2007 at 11:13 PM
Cease and desist
Declaratory judgment is common when one party sends another a cease and desist letter. A case or controversy arises when the cease and desist letter places the recipient in “reasonable apprehension” of litigation. Cease and desist letters allow the recipient to file for declaratory judgment in their own jurisdiction, which requires the sender to appear in a distant court, at their own expense.In determining whether a cease and desist letter creates a “reasonable apprehension” of litigation, courts will look to the totality of the circumstances.
In the patent law context, a court will find a “reasonable apprehension” when a letter expressly charges infringement. However, a cease and desist letter may make “an oblique suggestion of possible infringement” without creating a “reasonable apprehension” of litigation. Letters stating that a particular “use” “appear[] to be covered” by a patent or offering the recipient a license have been held to be merely an “oblique suggestion.” Nevertheless, a court may find a “reasonable apprehension” of litigation if there are “additional indicia of the potential for litigation.”
From: shrlelwry
Reply-To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 7:58 PM
OK. If someone were to send cease and desist order to each committee member deciding on green license plates(actually we would need 2 people to do this) and, if the letter were ignored the petition of declaratory releif could be filed and everything would come to a temporary halt? Nothing could move forward until this came before a judge in whatever area of the state this is filed. Am I right?
Jenny, as the non-offending spouse, would be great because this does step all over her rights. Are we capable of doing this pro se? Are there filing fees involved?
Jenny, are you game? Johnny, I know you are not afraid to speak up. Does anyone remember what this bill is tied to?
We could do the same thing in TX on the drivers licence bill. These are proceedures we can all learn and better protect ourselves legally.
We are about to open Sosenlaw just for this purpose.I hope we have some teachers!
From: jenny
Reply-To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 8:17 PM
It would depend on exactly what you’d need me to do. I have no desire to go on the local news speaking out as the wife of an SO, but if I can do anything other than that I’d be happy to.
Jen
From: Terry Brown
Reply-To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sat, Apr 14, 2007 at 9:23 PM
I know a lot but I’m no attorney - but I know enough to get us pointed in the right direction and how to do legal research and could definitely assist in the process in order to keep actual legal bills lower.
Let me know when the group is formed and I will join.
From: Mori
Reply-To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 7:30 AM
Re: Cease and Desist letter
The letter is a good idea. It should inform the politicians that they are in danger of trampling (use a better word) your constitutional rights (you have these under both state and U.S. constitutions, usually).
If they pass an ordnance or bill, we/you should file immediately for a preliminary injunction to prevent it from being enforced. All of us as a class, ex-offender and everybody affected by it, should be the named plaintiffs.
For more in-depth discussion on this, let’s move this issue to sosenlaw. I have not started getting that group’s messages, but look forward to starting that up. Webmaster, beam me up?
I guess for now we could leave a thread at national, just so it gets max exposure.
I hope we don’t have to do this, and they wake up and decide it’s not a good idea after all to create those plates.
Outrageous!
Majormori
zlegaltimes.blogspot.com
From: Terry Brown
Reply-To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 11:15 AM
Here is a VERY rough draft from which we can build…
April 16, 2007
Mr. John Doe
Kansas Senate
Kansas State Capitol
300 SW 10th Street
Topeka, Kansas 66612Re: Violation of My Constitutional Rights
Dear Mr. Doe:
I am a Registered Sex Offender living in the State of Kansas.
I completed my criminal sentence on February 3, 2003 and was released from prison. I completed my post-release supervision on February 3, 2006.
It has recently come to my attention that you are debating the enactment of several pieces of legislation that would violate my constitutional rights and infringe my liberties afforded to every U.S . citizen by our Constitution. I hereby request that you cease and desist from further debate on such legislative mechanisms forthwith.
Specifically, you are considering these pieces of legislation:
1) HB 2088 – An ACT concerning criminal trespass against children by sex offenders – this Act would violate my rights as a U.S. citizen to move about freely within the State of Kansas. While it is my contention that any such restriction would violate my rights as a U.S. Citizen to move about freely within the borders of this nation, I have grave concerns that even were such rights somehow restricted with a U.S. Constitutional Amendment there would be serious obstacles in the implementation of such restriction in order to make it plainly obvious to me where I may or may not go.
Specifically, there is a major concern that there would be a need for the State to post signage and to maintain this signage in terms of assuring that it accurately depicts restricted zones.
2) blah, blah, blah – colored license plates
3) blah, blah, blah – driver’s license designations
The purpose of this letter is to advise you of my rights and to seek your agreement to the following: To stop the legislative discussions involving any mechanism that would not only to infringe upon my constitutionally guaranteed privileges in the name of child and public safety but would never serve such purpose but rather would only serve in a punitive capacity and would incite vigilantism against me at many levels.
Please confirm, in writing, that you have complied with the above request.
The information contained in this notification is accurate as of the time of compilation and, under penalty of perjury.
I reserve my position insofar as costs and damages caused by the potential continuation of the trampling of my constitutional rights as a United States citizen. I also reserve my right to seek injunctive relief to prevent further such potential infringements with respect to my constitutionally guaranteed liberties and protections, pending your response to this letter. I suggest you contact your legal advisors to obtain legal advice as to your position.
I await your response within 24 hours.
Very truly yours,
Joe Sex Offender
From: Terry Brown
Reply-To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 11:20 AM
Oops - needed to remove the Diebold reference [done]… Here is the starting point. We need to add some strong language for the license plate mechanism in terms of the equal protection violation. Please note that this concept may only be used for pending legislation - any law that has already been passed must (at least this is my initial thinking - tell me if I’m wrong Mori) be attacked under the normal court filings - I wonder if we can use the cease & desist against law enforcement agents from acting under these unconstitutional laws? Wouldn’t hurt to send a few thousand letters out regardless - talk about clogging up the COURTS we’ll clog up the entire freakin system by making every Tom, Dick & Harry respond to these letters REGARDLESS of their response or the ultimate outcome!
From: Shirley Lowery
Reply-To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, Apr 15, 2007 at 2:37 PM
Cease and Desist
Mori, I still want to learn more about this. Am I required to live in the state where the objectionable actions are taking place? OR Can I say that I am owner and chairman of SOSEN, a support group that deals with former members all across the US and that new legislation has been introduced which interfers with our program where we have a zero recidivism rate?
I still don’t know anything about what fees are involved and you know that SOSEN has no money but if we can file these things from out of state it will be a damned sight more inconvient for anyone to fight back.
If this can be done the wisest thing would be to look at the map, see who we have that is the greatest distance away and do it from there. I don’t care how many of these things we must file across the nation of we can afford to do it. We can’t afford to fight them but we could cause so much disruption and delay and maybe these issues would get tabled for now.
TX had 19 pending laws and I would like to put everyone in gridlock. VA has twice as many. How do we tie up the whole ball of wax?
From: Mori
Reply-To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
Re: Cease and Desist
Very Carefully.
State laws affect only residents of the state. A state resident must file on a state law that adversely impacts her/him.
Federal is different, we all have standing to challenge federal law with legitimate grievance(s).
Did I answer your qns?
Re: Cease and Desist
This message thread was atarted at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sosenlaw/message/24In the last portion of that thread, Mori asked if he replied satisfactorily. I believe Mori did not read the entire thread of multiple messages prior to replying. I would ask that Mori read all four messages in this thread and respond again to this issue for us all.
Thanks in advance.How can we use this to our advantage???
This is a new media blitz by the ACLU — can we spin this to our situation(s)?Read it, download it, memorize it, practice it, breathe it. Yeah, that’s right. I said breathe it.
You can make it so they will never want to deal with you again. BETTER YET, THEY WILL AVOID YOU. See, they won’t honor your Due Process Rights – your Legal Answer, so you exercise a Political Answer. He has a free tele-conference call every Tuesday
———- Forwarded message ———-
From: ZMan
Date: Jun 1, 2007 2:01 PM
Subject: Re: Will Youtube be next to delete RSO’s?
In case you were not aware of this site, this contains all states CyberSTalking info:
http://www.ncsl.org/programs/lis/cip/stalk99.htm
eAdvocate wrote:
Now, maybe you folks remember this page of mine:
http://www.geocities.com/advocateletters/adam-walsh-act-warnings.htmlLook closely at the left hand column just below each state, you will find (some still not found) statutes so RSOs can report when they are being attacked in some way.
I have worked tirelessly trying to create tools for RSOs to fight back legally, this is one of them, and I do have a suggested complaint form which I have developed for RSOs to use in reporting to police and registry personnel when they are being targeted. It was used in Colorado and was successful in stopping the harasser.
While the public thinks this stuff is funny, every one being a Perverted-Justice stalker, and gets away with it, we as advocates must create these types of tools for folks to fight back.
In addition, we need to get lawmakers to enact specialized penalties for RSO-stalkers and those that do inflict harm.
I COMPLETELY agree with you… we have a louder voice in numbers, it is a proven fact that numbers do really speak… Look at all the civil rights marches of the 60’s.
I think that the problem mainly lies in that most people #1 lack the funds and resources for that kind of campaign. #2 there is the apprehension and fear of coming out and ‘being known’ like that, even in a class action, they will feel exposed to the same court that did their life in to begin with, then of course leading to the distrust that I would say that most if not all the people here have already for the court systems and governmental bodies. #3 There is the general negative attitude that it won’t matter what we do, that it will fail anyway cause ‘they’ will win anyway…
The big misconception is that there are a lot of ‘them’ which there isn’t NEARLY as many as I believe that there are, just by talking to people I know… Yes all agree (even we do) that the predators out there that are truly monsters should be monitored if they can’t be rehabilitated. I am also finding that most of them actually already have the mind that most of them out there on the registry in their areas aren’t monsters but ‘victims’ of the legal system a lot of times. (I found that really odd actually, and that was coming from a mother no less) Now this could be because I live in a rural area where a lot of people have been born/raised and live here so they know a lot of the history of the people and area too. There is a nearby small city that I can see having WAY different views than that though, and I believe that to be because most of them are ‘transplants’ and thus don’t know the area or the people. But the point that I am trying to make is that the only reason that ‘them’ seem so intimidating is because they have louder voices and bigger platforms in which to speak, so you don’t need as many people to make a lot of noise.
I think that if everyone truly did do it together, take that ‘risk’, that we could accomplish double the headway in 1/2 the time.
Re: Class Action
I think someone has to get the ball rolling and then a judge can be asked to declare a case as a class action. Just for an example let’s look at residency restrictions. Many of the area that have passed them only because nobody has challenged them. Many of these small towns don’t have the money to fight to keep them. We don’t have $ either but I do beleive that we could file pro se and pay only filing fees that that would cause a panic in poorer areas. There is also civil court to consider. I don’t know if 10 people could file 1 small claims suite with each of those individuals asking for the max allowed in that particular court or if everyone would have to spend the $50 to ask for the maximum of $5000 or whatever it is in your area)But if there are 10 people each asking for $5000 at the same time it will get attention. It is time for people everywhere to start pushing for cities or counties to pay bills for relocation and take the zeal out of such laws. In some cases we could even see them collapse.
I am not a lawyer either but I have seen 2 things in supreme court decisions that get me steamed. One is the nature of the crime which nothing in the world can ever change but a judgement has already been made on that issue.
Secondly, is the high recidivism rates so this is the myth you would probably need to fight if the situation got that far. But many of these restricted area were having no problems, it cost them nothing to follow what everyone else is doing. If it ain’t free many people
don’t want it.During the 60 days ir so, between the time it is filed and the time of the hearing,some really creative thinking may be taking place. A loss for you means $50. A loss for them could cost $5000 for each person filing. In eirher case you have cost them time, money and worry. I am certainly no attorney but I know people will take almost anything that’s free. When a price tag is attached the picture changes. It isn’t so difficult to give away puppies but but put up a sign that says $25 and see how many you get rid of.
From: shrlelwry
Reply-To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
To: nationalsosen@yahoogroups.com
You are the only attorney I have. I hope you will teach us how to put this nation in a choke hold.
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