Ignorance, allied with power is the most ferocious enemy of justice

lindape54
SOSEN/CEO
SOSEN Staff
Member

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When we were on Sundays conference call Al put us on the spot and asked if he could be part of our staff conferences. We said that we need to ask the rest of staff how they feel.

Me personally, I think that would set a bad precedent. If he has something that NEEDS to include him then that is one thing. He wants into staff so bad

How does everyone else feel
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lobster1138
SOSEN Staff
Member

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i don’t really have an opinion about it, but i think if he isn’t allowed into the meetings, he will probably throw a fit
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coolrich001
SOSEN Staff
Member

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Since I can never make the calls, bedtime for me, I have no place commenting on this. However, Al does seem divisive and a bit manipulative. Do you need someone like that on a Staff call? Hasn’t this path been trod?
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equal justice

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I agree that we do not need Al in all of our calls. He can attend if he has something in particular he needs to talk about.
The thing is, he is going to get royally pissed off to hear that.

static

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I think his new “position” as writers’ co-chair will help, but also hurt. It helps because he should feel he has an important job to do now, but it hurts because that job will undoubtedly give him many opportunities to ask for more and more special treatment. He has mentioned to me that he would like a few extra privileges in the committee- like being able to move threads, etc. If this is possible I don’t really have a problem with it, as I’ll be leaning on him from time to time. He really has thrown himself into the work of the committee since becoming co-chair, so maybe that’s a good sign. If we give him a few extra privileges in the committee, it may go a long way toward helping him feel ok with not sitting in on meetings. Be warned, though- As time goes on, he will definitely find “reasons” that he needs to sit in.

Personally, I’m ambiguous on whether he should be allowed to sit in- he sometimes has good things to offer, and if he ever gets out of hand, it’s not too hard to take away the privilege. On the other hand, as he gets more comfortable with the arrangement, he’ll probably end up starting some controversy at some point. Whatever the rest of you decide is fine with me. But if it’s a “no”, I think whoever tells him should let him know that we want to see how he does with the writers’ committee before going any further. That leaves the option open for later and shouldn’t hurt his feelings too much. He asked me on the phone why people are hesitant to let him join our staff meetings. I was honest with him about why and he took it pretty well, so maybe he’s trying to change…But I understand if everyone wants to see if the change is permanent before giving him greater access-and he should understand too, IMO. I’m leaving myself out of this decision, because at this point I really don’t have an opinion one way or the other. But there’s also nothing wrong with keeping it as an “every now and then” thing, and that should be good enough for him to be able to get his “job” done.

equal justice

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Be careful static. Al has asked me the same question and said be honest now, I won’t get my feeling hurt. I really want to hear the truth. WELL he most certanly DID get his feelings hurt and we are STILL hearing about what I said to him.
He took it well when I was talking to him, but as he had time to ruminate on it, he did not like it one bit.
My concern with Al is that he uses things you tell him against you. The great part about our staff meetings is that we can feel free to say ANYTHING about ANYTHING. Don’t feel that way with Al there. Last staff meeting I almost bit my tongue after I said, I feel like we have been letting things slide…… Perfect amunition for dear ole Al to use at a later date.
He just makes me very uncomfortable. Like I have to watch every word…

static

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And that is the biggest issue, EJ. I’ve already seen Al openly reveal personal conversations on the forum. It would be just like him to post something like- “I won’t, of course, reveal personal conversations, but I remember in the last teleconference someone (who will remain nameless) saying words to the effect that you staff are going to do something about this” if he feels we aren’t performing to his expectations.
I too, noticed the way we had to be a little more “careful” in the teleconference. And even then he brought up the recent “controversy” in a subtle way. My opinion is that if he has changed, great- he can prove it by the way he handles his new position in the writers’ committee. THEN we can discuss whether he should be in on meetings, etc. Right now, the main concern for me is that our teleconferences would become “the AL show” instead of doing things that are productive. If everyone feels that that won’t be the case, fine- I have no big problem with it. But if we are uncertain, we should take a “wait and see” approach.

As far as being honest with him in personal conversations- I’m not too worried about what he does with what he hears. I’m careful not to discuss anything with him that I wouldn’t want to “pay” for later. I feel that Al is an important part of SOSEN- and I don’t mind telling him that. But I also feel he’s an a-hole sometimes- and I don’t mind telling him that either. Honesty is the best policy in situations like this. I’ll be honest -yet tactful- as much as possible, but not to the point where he can try to turn staff against each other. If he asks something I’m not comfortable with, or asks for an opinion I may not want to have to defend later, I don’t answer him.

But he’ll still get a good ruckus started if he wants to, so I choose not to let HIM decide what I can and can’t say in the first place, when possible.

Something to keep in mind is that if we feel the need to discuss the ramifications of Al joining teleconferences, that may be a good indication that it’s not be the best idea. Jasmine joined a teleconference recently and, to my knowledge, no one had any issues with it because there was a purpose to it, and she contributed a great deal. I’m not so sure Al’s “visit” was as successful. The otyher thing to keep in mind is that he will basically become a defacto staff-member. He will be able to participate in all the decisions without being responsible for the results. This could lead to a situation where he becomes a “man of the people” and turns membership against us whenever we displease him, yet never has to be held accoutable to them.

I think I’ve made a decision after all… He has a history of being a trouble-maker sometimes. Now he’s a committee chairperson. He should see this -and WE should see this- as a trial run. If he shows that he is committed to being less disruptive, THEN we can talk about other possibilities. It wasn’t too long ago that he disrupted the forum. Us giving him a chance is more than fair. He should be satisfied with that for now, IMO.

coolrich001
SOSEN Staff
Member

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Again, I have little room to make comment on this. However, I know from past experience how disruptive someone that needs to be constantly stroked is to the organization. The older members here have a lot of history with this situation.
Remember, those who do not learn the lessons of history are destined to repeat them!
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topwop
SOSEN Staff
Member

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Staff meetings are for exactly that, staff.
If a member of SOSEN or an outside entity wishes to be a “guest at a staff meeting for the purpose of speaking, questioning, or adding expertise to a subject fine.

The guest should piggy back with a sponsor from staff. They would then be given the floor for their purpose and when finished with that topic the member should leave the meeting with the guest and then come back.

We have by law one open meeting a year for all members.

Our meetings are difficult enough for everyone to speak at when they want to be included in a topic. I really hate the sound of “if you let one person do it then you have to let them all do it.” BUT!!

IMO
If anyone has something to contribute please come and do so, and then excuse yourself.
topwop

equal justice

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I agree top.
I made Al the moderator of Writers so he can move and delete and modify posts to that area.
So….. Today he moved a post I made in writers to the lounge!!!!
I know WHY he did it, and he was sending me a message…NO CHRISTIAN CONTENT IN HIS WRITERS COMMITTEE.
I am not upset about that, it is the rules and if he wants to enforce them fine.
But there was a darn good reason I put the thread in Writers Committee and NOT on the public forum…I did NOT want it on the public forum. Oh well, he has now apologized and I learned a lesson.

lindape54
SOSEN/CEO
SOSEN Staff
Member

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While I was out Al called and left a message about getting piggybacked in to tonight’s staff conference. I am piggybacking in Lois.

I did not tell him one way or the other that he can or cannot be at our calls. I have to go back out so if some one can take care of this I sure would appreciate it. My suggestion is to let him in tonight’s call for his portion and we can explain to him that we cannot let him in on every call

I have been doing yard word and errands all day. I’m POOPED! LOL I will be back for the call

static

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I believe the buck was passed to me- mission accomplished. He didn’t like not being allowed into all teleconferences, but he took it ok for now. I think his position in writers is softening the blow a little. I told him he could join every now and then if he has something that needs to be addressed by all staff together- that probably helped a little too. Only time will tell. The rest of the conversation was about the committee, and I think the talk went well. We’ll see…

I’ve pretty much taken a back seat on the committee- thought it might give him a chance to run something for awhile. I’ve been monitoring it, and communicating with him, but not being overly involved- so I can see how he does. Other than the one incident with Cheryl’s post, he’s done pretty well so far. I think I’ll make it a policy in writers that nothing gets deleted unless I’m consulted first. If the post is from a staff-member, I’ll act as liason between Al and the staff-member. That’ll hopefully keep things like that from happening again. I haven’t seen the post in question, but there’s no reason for Al to be heavy-handed about the religion thing. A post doesn’t need deletion unless it’s offensive in some way. Merely mentioning your faith in the course of a conversation is perfectly acceptable, IMO, as long as no one is forcing the issue. Anyway, I guess EJ and Al have it worked out for now.

I’ll be slowly becoming more actively involved in the committee soon, so most likely, I’ll deflect some of Al’s more irritating qualities.